Tuesday, September 8, 2009

Independence of God

from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology (Chapter 11)
God’s independence is defined as follows: God does not need us or the rest of creation for anything, yet we and the rest of creation can glorify him and bring him joy.
This attribute of God is sometimes called his self-existence or his aseity (from the Latin words a se, which mean “from himself ”). Scripture in several places teaches that God does not need any part of creation in order to exist or for any other reason. God is absolutely independent and self-sufficient. Paul proclaims to the men of Athens, “The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything” (Acts 17:24–25). The implication is that God does not need anything from mankind.
God asks Job, “Who has given to me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine” (Job 41:11). No one has ever contributed to God anything that did not first come from God who created all things. Similarly, we read God’s word in Psalm 50, “every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the air, and all that moves in the field is mine. If I were hungry, I would not tell you; for the world and all that is in it is mine” (Ps. 50:10–12).
People have sometimes thought that God created human beings because he was lonely and needed fellowship with other persons. If this were true, it would certainly mean that God is not completely independent of creation. It would mean that God would need to create persons in order to be completely happy or completely fulfilled in his personal existence.
Yet there are some specific indications in Jesus’ words that show this idea to be inaccurate. In John 17:5, Jesus prays, “Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory which I had with you before the world was made.” Here is an indication that there was a sharing of glory between the Father and the Son before creation. Then in John 17:24, Jesus speaks to the Father of “my glory which you have given me in your love for me before the foundation of the world.” There was love and communication between the Father and the Son before creation.
These passages indicate explicitly what we can learn elsewhere from the doctrine of the Trinity, namely, that among the persons of the Trinity there has been perfect love and fellowship and communication for all eternity. The fact that God is three persons yet one God means that there was no loneliness or lack of personal fellowship on God’s part before creation. In fact, the love and interpersonal fellowship, and the sharing of glory, have always been and will always be far more perfect than any communion we as finite human beings will ever have with God. And as the second verse quoted above speaks of the glory the Father gave to the Son, we should also realize that there is a giving of glory by the members of the Trinity to one another that far surpasses any bestowal of glory that could ever be given to God by all creation.
With regard to God’s existence, this doctrine also reminds us that only God exists by virtue of his very nature, and that he was never created and never came into being. He always was. This is seen from the fact that all things that exist were made by him (“For you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created” [Rev. 4:11]; this is also affirmed in John 1:3; Rom. 11:35–36; 1Cor. 8:6). Moses tells us that God existed before there was any creation: “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God” (Ps. 90:2). God’s independence is also seen in his self-designation in Exodus 3:14: “God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM.’” It is also possible to translate this statement “I will be what I will be,” but in both cases the implication is that God’s existence and character are determined by himself alone and are not dependent on anyone or anything else. This means that God’s being has always been and will always be exactly what it is. God is not dependent upon any part of creation for his existence or his nature. Without creation, God would still be infinitely loving, infinitely just, eternal, omniscient, trinitarian, and so forth.
God’s being is also something totally unique. It is not just that God does not need the creation for anything; God could not need the creation for anything. The difference between the creature and the Creator is an immensely vast difference, for God exists in a fundamentally different order of being. It is not just that we exist and God has always existed; it is also that God necessarily exists in an infinitely better, stronger, more excellent way. The difference between God’s being and ours is more than the difference between the sun and a candle, more than the difference between the ocean and a raindrop, more than the difference between the arctic ice cap and a snowflake, more than the difference between the universe and the room we are sitting in: God’s being is qualitatively different. No limitation or imperfection in creation should be projected onto our thought of God. He is the Creator; all else is creaturely. All else can pass away in an instant; he necessarily exists forever.
The balancing consideration with respect to this doctrine is the fact that we and the rest of creation can glorify God and bring him joy. This must be stated in order to guard against any idea that God’s independence makes us meaningless. Someone might wonder, if God does not need us for anything, then are we important at all? Is there any significance to our existence or to the existence of the rest of creation? In response it must be said that we are in fact very meaningful because God has created us and he has determined that we would be meaningful to him. That is the final definition of genuine significance.
God speaks of his sons and daughters from the ends of the earth as “everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made” (Isa. 43:7). Although God did not have to create us, he chose to do so in a totally free choice. He decided that he would create us to glorify him (cf. Eph. 1:11–12; Rev. 4:11).
It is also true that we are able to bring real joy and delight to God. It is one of the most amazing facts in Scripture that God actually delights in his people and rejoices over them. Isaiah prophesies about the restoration of God’s people:
You shall be a crown of beauty in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of your God. You shall no more be termed Forsaken and your land shall no more be termed Desolate; but you shall be called My delight is in her, and your land Married; for the LORD delights in you and your land shall be married.... as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall your God rejoice over you. (Isa. 62:3–5)
Similarly, Zephaniah prophesies that the LORD “will rejoice over you with gladness, he will renew you in his love; he will exult over you with loud singing as on a day of festival” (Zeph. 3:17–18). God does not need us for anything, yet it is the amazing fact of our existence that he chooses to delight in us and to allow us to bring joy to his heart. This is the basis for personal significance in the lives of all God’s people: to be significant to God is to be significant in the most ultimate sense. No greater personal significance can be imagined.
Explain how each aspect of the doctrine of God’s independence makes you feel emotionally. Does this doctrine have a positive or negative effect on your spiritual life? Explain why.

15 comments:

  1. That God doesn't need anything we can give, considering that all we give was originally given to us by God, makes me feel relieved when thinking about how I can never do enough to meet God's standards. Yes, bringing God glory makes both Him and I joyful, but why stress over a task that can never be "exhaustively" completed?
    That God was, is, and will always be perfectly loving and good in and of Himself is a comfort for me when I see all the lovelessness in the world today. I can know that there will always be a source of love that can never be tainted by the apathy of men.

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  2. For me, this article really straightened out alot of questions that have been forming in my mind lately. God's doctrine of independence made me suddenly feel ten million times more smaller compared to God. And i love knowing that since he is that glorious and that much more bigger and more powerful than me, that nothing can go wrong when he is on my side. I really liked how the author stated the fact that God was never lonely at any point in time. He made us to glorify him in every way that we can and it's as simple as that. That fact made me feel so content knowing that every single thing i do is for Him. Nothing is over looked or goes to waste. I think that this Doctrine has a very positive effect on my relationship with God. I plan to really think thru all of the respect that he deserves and what he does in my life.
    -Tarah Barton

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  3. The donctrine of God's independence makes me feel quite a bit better about God. I personally find that if God is independent of His creation yet still seeks our love and companioship is, for lack of a better word, awesome. I also feel that God's independence frees us from the troubles of having to do intricate rituals to please Him, which leave more time for building a relationship with Him.

    -Dylan Temple

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  4. Reading The Independence of God was pretty awesome. Knowing that God created us not because he had to but because he wanted to had a releaving feeling. But the chapter is right, God doesnt need us or anything of creation for that matter, He created it, so He can do what he pleases with His creation. But that also brings the feeling of anxiety because if God doesnt necessaraly need His creation then at any moment He can take it all away because He is so independent. Over all this chapeter really made me start to think about God's independence and that we should be so lucky to be here because without God and His love for us we would not exist.

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  5. This article did not make me sad in any way shape or form. For me, the article said that God wanted to have a fellowship with his creation and he decided to make us, humans, me you and every other individual out there to be His. This makes me feel honored and that i have a very special relationship with God as do those that are not belieers, because God knows everything about them and will be perfectly willing to accept them with open arms when they want. Like Tarah i also enjoyed knowing that God was never lonely and had a perfectly functioning system between Himself, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. This was a positive doctrine in my opinion, and it was enlightening to know how special we truly are to the Creator.
    - Tiffany Drapkin

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  6. This last portion of this article really clicked for me. I beleieve that it is truly incomprehendable, not fully understandable that God truly is independent from us. We have no effect upon His personage, nothing we do can change Him or ever will change Him. That being stated, the fact that the Lord elected to create us speaks volumes of His unsurpassed love. He already possessed everything he required: love, care, compassion, intimacy in the trinity. He chose however, to create a human, who is below His mighty existence in every aspect simply so He might have something else to care for and something else to give Him glory. If God chooses to create us when he already has the Holy Spirit and JEsus? Wow.

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  7. this article really challenged me. it was easier to understand but it still challeneged me. Since God is not dependent on us and is not dependent on anyone or anything, why are we here. yes i understand we are here to bring God joy but did God not have joy before we were created? can someone clarify? i dont understand this. i guess i already knew that God was not dependent on anyone, i had just never thought about it. now that im thinking about it im confused. it sucks. why did God create us? this is all i can think about now. why are we here?

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  8. As I read this article, it reminds me that God created us and we are not in control! Sure we have free will, but since God created us, he has complete control of every situation that comes across our table. Pertaining to the question of Why did God create us? I searched biblegateway.com for a good verse for this question and the verse I found is in Revelation 4:11 and it says, "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things,
    and by your will they were created and have their being.”
    This is saying straightforward the God created us and since he created us, we should give him the glory for it.

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  9. At the beginning, I felt a little bit sad because it sounded like there was not any great reason of God creating us. I was questioning then why would he have created us? I know that we all have purposes given by God to change the world in someway. Then doesn't that mean that God needs us somehow to change the world? However, as I kept on reading the article, I got to understand what "God does not need us" meant. Now I am glad that I got to really understand why God created us, and this doctrine have a positive effect on my spiritual life because by knowing that God delights in us and rejoices over us encourage me to bring joy to His heart.

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  10. This article makes me think about how God created us and is in control. But why did he create us? Well, God created us for a couple reasons. 1, we are here to worship him. 2, we are here to be a witness of him to others. Just some thoughts...

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  11. God needs absolutley nothing from us; however, we need everything from him. This doctrine has a positive effect on me because God chooses to delight in us even though we are not necessary to his existence. It is also a positive experience for us humans because we get to rejoice to a God who delights in us God is still God even withouth his creation(us).

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  12. For me personaly, I this doctrine has a postive effect on my spirtitual life because even though God does not need us and the rest of creation, he still wants us and he wants us to love him. When we worship Him it still brings joy to Him. We were created for God's glory and to bring Him praise so that is exactly what we must do.

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  13. this article was really impressed me. At the beginnig it said about God is self- existence. And it is God don't need us.But it's mean is not that.God is unique.And between the creature and the Creator is vey diffenrent.
    He could not need us for him and help us for him. But why did he create us? God want to we rejoice his name and praised him. also, He so much love us.

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  14. It's interesting how God is outside of His creation. He simply exists; He wasn't "created." The fact that God doen't need us and could not possibly need us , but yet still loves us makes a positive impact on my spiritual life. He doesn't need us to love Him (we could never love Him enough anyways), but still He does. This implies that He doesn't love us because of who we are or what we do, but because He is love. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."(Romans 3:23) God will always love us, no matter what we do.
    But still if God doen't need us why did He create us? Did he just create us to "show off?"
    He doesn't need anyone to love Him, and He does not need anyone to love. He cannot be lonely because of the trinity. Maybe He just had such an imagination He couldn't bear to keep it hidden. I guess we'll never know in this lifetime.

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  15. Greetings Michael Flint

    On the subject of the Trinity,
    I recommend this video:
    The Human Jesus


    Take a couple of hours to watch it; and prayerfully it will aid you to reconsider "The Trinity"

    Yours In Messiah
    Adam Pastor

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